How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us

[.]

As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care
more about abuse reports.

They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse
complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.

Their server IPs are:
encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226
pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227

A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
email addresses to report abuse to are now: abuse-ZfOhy7nNehbwMB+***@public.gmane.org,
support-ZfOhy7nNehbwMB+***@public.gmane.org, abuse-YBAEREkyI29Wk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org

If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.



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[Jeff Raymond]

Post by .
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.

As someone who was an insider for a while, that won't happen. They know
full well what they're doing, and they wouldn't move to a new host if it
wasn't going to serve their purposes.

-Jeff

[Mets501]

Post by .
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.

I still think that we should get as many people as possible to sent abuse
reports; it would be especially great if the people who were attacked sent
in the reports. Even if it might not work, we can still try.
--Mets501

[Stan Shebs]

Post by .
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians.

Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's bedroom,
probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would take any of
the random ravings seriously.

Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that if
all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)

Stan

[· Firefoxman]

What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
my school, so I cannot check the site.

Post by Stan Shebs

Post by .
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians.

Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's bedroom,
probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would take any of
the random ravings seriously.
Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that if
all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
Stan
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

[Mets501]

Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless and
Pornography
It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile
Wikipedians
--Mets501

-----Original Message-----
From: wikien-l-bounces-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:wikien-l-bounces-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of . Firefoxman
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:31 AM
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making
attack articles on us

What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadr
amatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
my school, so I cannot check the site.

Post by Stan Shebs

Post by .
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians.

Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's
bedroom, probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would
take any of the random ravings seriously.
Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that
if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
Stan
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

--
-Firefoxman

[· Firefoxman]

Do they have any real content at all?

Post by Mets501
Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless and
Pornography
It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile
Wikipedians
--Mets501
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:31 AM
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making
attack articles on us
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
blocked<
http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadr
amatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT

Post by Stan Shebs
at

my school, so I cannot check the site.

Post by Stan Shebs

Post by .
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians.

Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's
bedroom, probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would
take any of the random ravings seriously.
Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that
if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
Stan
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

--
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[Jeff Raymond]

Post by · Firefoxman
Do they have any real content at all?

Post by Mets501
Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless and
Pornography
It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile
Wikipedians
--Mets501

They handle web memes better than we do in terms of accuracy, maybe not as
much as taste. Their "attacks" on Wikipedians constitute a minimal amount
of their content, albeit more than what was there when I was a
contributor. Most of their content revolves around LiveJournal.

-Jeff

[Will]

Just my two cents as one of those Wikipedians that has been targeted.

The pages really aren't that nice. Over the past few months, the
simple factthat the page about me (and on nathanr, to an extent) is
there has almost
driven off the wiki several times, and in fact, it was the final reason
behind my departure.

Any reason to take ED down would be good, although it probably won't happen.

- Will (Sceptre)

[Kurt Maxwell Weber]

Post by Will
Any reason to take ED down would be good, although it probably won't happen.

Oh, grow up.

[NSLE (Wikipedia)]

Indeed, quite on the contrary, as someone who is also targetted. Just ignore
them. We leave tthem alone, they leave the rest of us alone, then there's
nothing more to pursue.

Post by Kurt Maxwell Weber

Post by Will
Any reason to take ED down would be good, although it probably won't happen.

Oh, grow up.
--
Kurt Weber
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[George Herbert]

Post by Will
Just my two cents as one of those Wikipedians that has been targeted.
The pages really aren't that nice. Over the past few months, the
simple factthat the page about me (and on nathanr, to an extent) is
there has almost
driven off the wiki several times, and in fact, it was the final reason
behind my departure.
Any reason to take ED down would be good, although it probably won't happen.

A good reason NOT to take ED down would be that they aren't breaking
the law and that there's no internet-wide general policy against being
a steaming asshole.

I think it's entirely appropriate for Wikipedia to offiically ignore
(actively not allow linking, etc) ED given its activities. But,
something being hostile to the Wikipedia community in no way gives
Wikipedia special rights to go out into the rest of the Internet and
"stop them".

If their harrassment of you or others rises to the level of a civil
tort in the US, then by all means call an attorney. If it rises to
the level of criminal, by all means call the police and the ISP.

As others have posted, it's exposing Wikipedia to potential liability
to be talking about "takedown strategies" for another website on a
Wikipedia mailing list. Please stop.

[Tony Jacobs]

Post by · Firefoxman
Do they have any real content at all?

Of course they have "real content". It's basically falls into 3 categories:

There's documentation of internet memes and inside jokes, which is often
accurate, and much more thorough than our documentation of the same, because
they have no WP:V or WP:NOR restrictions. A lot of this content comes from
4chan and related sites.

Secondly, they've got a lot of satirical material relating to sexism,
racism, homophobia, and basic fear and intolerance against every demographic
group you care to name. Some people think they're racist and hateful,
others recognize it as a caricature of intolerance, intended to be funny.

Third, they document Internet "drama", mercilessly poking fun at people
whose online activities they find to be ridiculous. Most of their targets
are LiveJournal users, with some bloggers and podcasters, and they do seem
to have a special place in their hearts for Wikipedians. It's a sort of
gonzo-journalism style documentation, because they're not above creating
drama and documenting it at the same time.

Personally, I think that if we calll them an "attack site" and make a big
deal out of their nonsense, that we're just creating more drama, and handing
them free content. It seems to me that the reasonable reaction is to note
that what they do has nothing to do with writing an encyclopedia, and to
pretty much ignore them.

If you want to stop them making "attack articles" about Wikipedians, one way
is to refrain from generating drama. There's also a drama-positive
situation existing where both wikis nurture misconceptions about the other.
As someone who appreciates both wikis, I continue to explain to each that
the editors of the other are actually human beings, and not some kind of
monsters. If they stop making fun of Wikipedians, it'll be because they
decide we're cool after all, not because we declare war on them and somehow
win. Since I happen to think that Wikipedia is cool, I think this is an
attainable goal.


Tony/GTBacchus

Post by · Firefoxman
Do they have any real content at all?

Post by Mets501
Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless

and

Post by Mets501
Pornography
It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile
Wikipedians
--Mets501
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:31 AM
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making
attack articles on us
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
blocked<
http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadr
amatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT

Post by Stan Shebs
at

my school, so I cannot check the site.

Post by Stan Shebs

Post by .
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians.

Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's
bedroom, probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would
take any of the random ravings seriously.
Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that
if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
Stan
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

--
-Firefoxman
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

--
-Firefoxman
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[Stan Shebs]

Post by Tony Jacobs
As someone who appreciates both wikis, I continue to explain to each
that the editors of the other are actually human beings, and not some
kind of monsters.

Sure they're humans - average-age-14 humans, from the looks of it.

Post by Tony Jacobs
If they stop making fun of Wikipedians, it'll be because they decide
we're cool after all, not because we declare war on them and somehow
win.

I *so* don't care whether 14-year-olds think I'm cool or not.

Stan

[Tony Jacobs]

Post by Stan Shebs

Post by Tony Jacobs
As someone who appreciates both wikis, I continue to explain to each
that the editors of the other are actually human beings, and not some
kind of monsters.

Sure they're humans - average-age-14 humans, from the looks of it.

I don't know of any that young. The ones I know range in age from 19 to 30.
I think a lot are college age.

Post by Stan Shebs

Post by Tony Jacobs
If they stop making fun of Wikipedians, it'll be because they decide
we're cool after all, not because we declare war on them and somehow
win.

I *so* don't care whether 14-year-olds think I'm cool or not.

Then you're contributing to a conversation about "how to stop" them... for
what reason? You're making a point here? Are you advocating anything I'm
not? You think we shouldn't ignore them? You think we should go ahead and
generate lots of drama in some kind of wiki-war?

I find your reply puzzling.


Tony/GTBacchus

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[Stan Shebs]

Post by Tony Jacobs
Then you're contributing to a conversation about "how to stop" them... for
what reason? You're making a point here? Are you advocating anything I'm
not? You think we shouldn't ignore them? You think we should go ahead and
generate lots of drama in some kind of wiki-war?

I think that the time spent talking about them is milliseconds we'll
never get back. They are of no significance.

Stan

[Keitei]

Post by · Firefoxman
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://
encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/
Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
my school, so I cannot check the site.

Trying to be as NPOV as possible, Encyclopedia Dramatica is meant to
be a humor site. It originated from LJ drama (which was a bit of a
fiasco for those involved, if I remember correctly), and thus has
always allowed and encouraged articles on livejournal users and
internet personas. Wikipedians are fair game. Their humor style tends
towards the "tasteless": shock images, profanity, and obscene mental
images. Some people find this funny; I don't happen to, but it's
their business. They do have "real" content, that is content on real
world things, but most of their articles last I checked were internet
related.

As for knocking them off their host, I don't think Wikipedia ever
would be or should be involved in this. If different people want to
initiate this, that's their business. Doesn't seem to be appropriate
for a Wikipedia mailing list, but that's just my opinion.

--keitei

[Andrew Gray]

Post by Keitei

Post by · Firefoxman
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://
encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/
Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
my school, so I cannot check the site.

Trying to be as NPOV as possible, Encyclopedia Dramatica is meant to
be a humor site. It originated from LJ drama (which was a bit of a
fiasco for those involved, if I remember correctly)

It originated from LJ drama and became ED after a very short stint on
enwp, about one day long :-)

Post by Keitei
As for knocking them off their host, I don't think Wikipedia ever
would be or should be involved in this. If different people want to
initiate this, that's their business. Doesn't seem to be appropriate
for a Wikipedia mailing list, but that's just my opinion.

Quite. If you want to lead a crusade to 'clean up' the internet,
please feel free, but don't do it here unless we're actively involved.
(The same applies to starting new search-engine projects, come to
think of it)

[· Firefoxman]

Wouldent they deserve their own article?

Post by Andrew Gray

Post by Keitei

Post by · Firefoxman
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is
blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://
encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/
Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at
my school, so I cannot check the site.

Trying to be as NPOV as possible, Encyclopedia Dramatica is meant to
be a humor site. It originated from LJ drama (which was a bit of a
fiasco for those involved, if I remember correctly)

It originated from LJ drama and became ED after a very short stint on
enwp, about one day long :-)

Post by Keitei
As for knocking them off their host, I don't think Wikipedia ever
would be or should be involved in this. If different people want to
initiate this, that's their business. Doesn't seem to be appropriate
for a Wikipedia mailing list, but that's just my opinion.

Quite. If you want to lead a crusade to 'clean up' the internet,
please feel free, but don't do it here unless we're actively involved.
(The same applies to starting new search-engine projects, come to
think of it)
--
- Andrew Gray
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[Alphax (Wikipedia email)]

Post by · Firefoxman
Wouldent they deserve their own article?

The only NPOV statement I have in response to that is "go read the
Arbcom case".

[Fred Bauder]

Post by Jeff Raymond
They handle web memes better than we do in terms of accuracy, maybe not as
much as taste. Their "attacks" on Wikipedians constitute a minimal amount
of their content, albeit more than what was there when I was a
contributor. Most of their content revolves around LiveJournal.
-Jeff

Through the MONGO arbitration case the arbitration committee has probably restricted activities related to dem attica as much as appropriate. Main thing, don't make links to them. Editors who are active on dam attic may edit Wikipedia, but are expected to wear their Wikipedia hat, not their Dramatic hat. Going further is probably inappropriate, even mean-sprited.

Fred

[Guy Chapman aka JzG]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:51:05 +0000, "Fred Bauder"

Post by Fred Bauder
Through the MONGO arbitration case the arbitration committee has probably restricted activities related to dem attica as much as appropriate. Main thing, don't make links to them. Editors who are active on dam attic may edit Wikipedia, but are expected to wear their Wikipedia hat, not their Dramatic hat. Going further is probably inappropriate, even mean-sprited.

Some people who edit Wikipedia have taken a part in editing these
articles. That is not good. But a wise man said to me that if they
are jerks, they will be jerks on Wikipedia and then we can deal with
them. This is sage advice. I am watching.

Jeff gets some shit for having been involved with ED. I say that Jeff
is emphatically not a jerk. He is not one of the ones on my watchlist.

Guy (JzG)

[Ron Ritzman]

Post by .
This means the
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.

Here is a link to colo4dallas.com's AUP

http://colo4dallas.com/aup.asp

Which part of this is E.D. violating? ISP's don't terminate clients
for simply receiving a lot of conplaints.

[Delirium]

Post by .
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care
more about abuse reports.
They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse
complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226
pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.

I definitely don't support this. If they're doing something illegal
(libel, etc.), then legal action may be warranted, but trying to
strongarm an ISP into taking down a site isn't a good idea.

-Mark

[Parker Peters]

Post by .
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care
more about abuse reports.
They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse
complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226
pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.

Attempting to set up an organized attack, especially by filing what may
arguably false reports, isn't going to help anyone's cause.

In fact, it could leave Wikipedia open to some legal troubles.

Parker

[Pilotguy]

Yes, to echo Parker above, we don't need to get involved with this. Based on
this thread we all know how worthless ED is, and it's probably best to
ignore them and leave them alone rather than feed them and allow them to
continue to troll the internet.

Post by Parker Peters

Post by .
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many
Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care
more about abuse reports.
They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse
complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226
pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a
traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.

Attempting to set up an organized attack, especially by filing what may
arguably false reports, isn't going to help anyone's cause.
In fact, it could leave Wikipedia open to some legal troubles.
Parker
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[Luna]

I can't speak so well, for the legal side of things, but this whole "I don't
like them, so I'll send takedown notices" attitude bugs me, too. I'm
actually fairly surprised that the Wikipedia community, which day-in and
day-out is greatly concerned with getting these *same sorts of complaints*
from people who want to control our content through legal threats and
similar means, would quickly turn around and threaten or plan the same sort
of behavior against other websites.

At this point, I would strongly oppose attaching Wikipedia's name to any
action of this nature, except in the most dire circumstances. If this is
done, let it be done by individuals who represent themselves and their own
interests.

I don't like trolls. That's why I block them on the wiki. Past that, I'm
less concerned about whether it's the business of the Wikipedia community --
communal antagonism of this nature only encourages them, you know.

Just a few thoughts,
-Luna

[Matthew Brown]

<AOL>Me too.</AOL>

[Parker Peters]

See also: [[Lone wolf (terrorism]].

And I'm disgusted to see one of our members making this kind of call. You do
realize this does more damage to us, because it's an outright call for
people to try to disguise their connection to Wikipedia when filing
fraudulent claims.

Plus, I thought you were better than that, Luna.

Parker

<snip>
At this point, I would strongly oppose attaching Wikipedia's name to any
action of this nature, except in the most dire circumstances. If this is
done, let it be done by individuals who represent themselves and their own
interests.
<snip>
Just a few thoughts,
-Luna
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